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P2004 - IMRC Intake Manifold Runner Control problems

Pacman8184

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Haha no problem at all. Just wondered what a diaphragm filter was or is this just another name for the IMRC filter?
 

Pacman8184

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Ahh ok. Just wondered. Never heard it called that before. Best get saving my pennies and get you to sort it out for me! Cheers
 

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I call it that because it has a diaphragm inside it
 

luke w

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After a bit of advice. I've had my Accord remapped by Fahad a few months back, it was detected that the EGR valve had completely gone, so this has been mapped out and I've fitted a blank. It always felt a bit flat and hesitant before the map, and although it's quicker, it still feels a bit hesitant and flat. A couple of times I've had the glow plug light come on although it hasn't really affected the way it drove and it would go after a few drives. It had a new genuine fuel filter a few thousand miles before the remap and I've done about another 5k since so I'm ruling out the fuel filter for the minute. Then today on the way home I noticed the engine management light was on. A couple of times it struggle to get past 2k rpm, other times it would rev past that but felt well down on power and once or twice it would come on boost and give me a shove in the back. I haven't had a chance to get a fault code reader on it yet but having a read of this thread it sounds like the FSV is faulty I've unplugged it ready to give it a run to see how it drives, is there anything else I should be looking at as well? (Aswell as getting the fault codes read ASAP).
 

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Hi Luke get the code read first and take it from there. When you blanked the egr did you do it both sides of the bypass pipe or just one? Try blanking both sides
 

luke w

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Hi Fahad, I only blanked one side so will do the other, also plan on cleaning the MAF, etc based on how bad the EGR had gotten they could probably benefit from a clean. Just need to get the codes read now to check what is actually playing up.
 

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Ok cool and please report what the actual error code is and take the guesswork out of it
 

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Wow, two days of reading and finished this thread now. More confused as before :D

Mine is having a really slow acceleration at low revs before turbo kicks in. Sometimes it takes seconds of "full throttle" to get the car moving right, which is a real pain in traffic. Only thing is that everything is ok with lower outside temperatures, say up to 10-15°C and with cold engine (the colder the longer it lasts). Everything is fine until engine heats up even just a little bit. It's really hard to test right now because of this enormous heat that hit us lately (~30... °C), but I was absolutely sure it was the EGR valve not closing or opening completely. Might this be? Now I suspect a dozen other things, including IMRC valve/solenoid, bad MAP/MAF sensors.What I know for sure is that the EGR valve and IMRC valve are not stuck, but can't tell if they're moving correctly. I tried disconnecting the FSV sensor clip and it felt better, but I think it can be even better.

Sorry if my English is bad, I am not native.
 

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Slow or sticking egr is most likely mate. We can map it out and you may need to blank it off
 

simontown

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waj1974 said:
Right guys, the news you all been waiting for. The Frequency Valve WORKS...
no jerkiness, no hesitation and above all my car now pulls like it never did before lol anyways guys as promised here are the photos of the fitting etc... I hope it solves many a peoples problems and please please please before buying the EGR like i was make sure it is the part thats faulty as its very expensive and Honda wont take it back.I would also like to say please do not blame the hesitation or jerkiness on the Elite remap as that only highlights the problem which in theory means the part was on its way out anyway. Fahad has done a brilliant job on the remaps and would like him to thank for his great work for all us members with remaps
Ok heres the Frequecny Solenoid Valve which i bought from Honda. £116 inc VAT.
And here it is in its full glory
The valve attached to the top of the intake manifold i believe
Ok so you unclip the sensor, slide off the vacuum pipes and with a 10mm socket undo the nut and off comes the valve. Fitting is the reversal of removal.
I knew straight away when i took it for a drive that it had cured the problem. Ok for other members, this problem was never highlighted for a long time and i wondered for months is it the egr valve, engine cylinder misfire, fuel filter which i changed religiously many a time lol air filter etc etc I only found out when the MIL came on with the code, and a little help from members pointed to the valve. Guys you can all try taking the clip sensor off the valve and if it drives better than you know for DEFINITE that its the problem.Your car will not go into limp mode but will drive better than before. Bear in mind that once you take off the valve sensor clip you dash will throw on CEL, which you need to clear using an OBD2 reader or equivalent.I hope this helps some members out there as i know how frustrating this jerkiness issue is, and if you have found it helpful please dont forget to send me a rep point
A massive thanks for this....had a few irritating issues with the car lately...and beginning to feel a little fed up with it! On my way back from hols noticed the car hunting revs at cruising speeds on the motor way, really disconcerting! Then got the engine fault light.....read by my friendly tech and code P2004 IMRC VALVE STUCK open. Chatted with Fahad and read forum and started with blanking the EGR but the car went into limp mode so couldn't really ***ess the effect as I was limited to 2000rpm. What I did notice is a lot of crud in the inlet manifold! Any way after reading the above I disconnected the IMRC, and this seems to have isolated the problem with the revs! Have agreed with Fahad the EGR still needs blanking off so will book in for next week....just need to decide whether to replace IMRC or MAP out....as I don't really know what it's supposed to do I'm open to advice

The biggest relief is that the problem has now been isolated thanks to the power of the hive mind....been around a while but the quality of this resource never ceases to amaze me!

A big thank you Waj1974, and Fahad
 

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Simon I've mapped them out without issue. On vauxhall and BMW people actually break the flaps out because they're so troublesome.
 

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F6HAD said:
Simon I've mapped them out without issue. On vauxhall and BMW people actually break the flaps out because they're so troublesome.
Decision made then
 

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Yep exactly right Jon, very common on the earlier BMW swirl flap design where they fall into the cylinder head and get crushed and normally take out a piston! Happened on captains BMW 730d but he saved it lol
 

simontown

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Ok so drove to Duxford today and can confirm that disconnecting the IMRC has resolved the hunting issue, resolved hesitation and given me more power....nice
 

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Hi guys,

can anyone tell me what are the potential problems of driving the car with the solenoid valve permanently unplugged?
the reason I am asking is that the car accelerates much better with the val;ave unplugged, and if there are no harmful consequences I would leave it unplugged all the time.
what exactly does that valve do anyway?

thanks
 

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You will get an error and I'm ***uming your swirl flaps will stay shut all the time.
 

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thanks for the answers.

yes the error light is on, but I can live with that considering the performance enhancement.

what do these swirl flaps do exactly? is it a problem for them to stay shut all the time?

does the solenoid valve control the swirl flaps?

could someone explain to me how does this system effect the work of the engine?

thanks
 

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Jon_G

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No fuel/air mix to worry about on the diesel, so that function doesn't apply in this case.

It's more to do with tuning the length of the inlet tract to optimise pressurisation at certain air flow velocities. I cannot post links on TA, but if you look up 'variable-length intake manifold' on Wikipedia there is a good explanation in the 'pressurisation' section.

The solenoid receives electrical pulses from the vehicle ECU and controls the flow of vacuum (generated by a pump on the engine) to the IMRC to apply varying levels of suction to make the swirl valves operate. Converting electrical signals to a flow of vacuum in this manner allows for smooth, well-damped movement.

With the solenoid disconnected no harm can come to the engine, but performance will not be optimum over the full rev range. But - if your car is now operating in limp mode - then surely you no longer have access to the full rev range anyway, which must be a major problem?
 

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No limp mode....just a warning light in this case.....

I think the fuel/air mix refers to how well they mix when the air is turbulent....rather than quantities of each??? Surely this would apply to any combustion engine? Although happy to stand corrected.

I also experienced better performance when switched off...but better still when fixed...
 

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The error code can be mapped out but honestly it's not a proper fix.

Your problem will be an egr valve clogging up causing soot accumulation on the swirl flaps, this is very common on all modern diesels.

You need to treat the root cause rather than the symptom.

Blank off the egr and have that mapped out and then have the inlet manifold cleaned as simon did recently.

With the egr closed the swirl flaps will never suffer this build up again as there are no more dirty unburnt gasses going back through the inlet.

The car will feel like a million dollars and run better than ever.
 

simontown

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Variable length inlet manifold link as mentioned by Jon....

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-length_intake_manifold

There are two main effects of variable intake geometry:

Swirl
Variable geometry can create a beneficial air swirl pattern, or turbulence in the combustion chamber. The swirling helps distribute the fuel and form a ****geneous air-fuel mixture - this aids the initiation of the combustion process, helps minimise engine knocking, and helps facilitate complete combustion. At low revolutions per minute (rpm), the speed of the airflow is increased by directing the air through a longer path with limited capacity (i.e., cross-sectional area) - and this ***ists in improving low engine speed torque. At high rpms, the shorter and larger path opens when the load increases, so that a greater amount of air with least resistance can enter the chamber - this helps maximise 'top-end' power. In double overhead camshaft (DOHC) designs, the air paths may sometimes be connected to separate intake valves[citation needed] so the shorter path can be excluded by de-activating the intake valve itself.
Pressurisation
A tuned intake path can have a light pressurising effect similar to a low-pressure supercharger - due to Helmholtz resonance. However, this effect occurs only over a narrow engine speed band. A variable intake can create two or more pressurized "hot spots", increasing engine output. When the intake air speed is higher, the dynamic pressure pushing the air (and/or mixture) inside the engine is increased. The dynamic pressure is proportional to the square of the inlet air speed, so by making the passage narrower or longer the speed/dynamic pressure is increased.

May also help explain why the engine is quieter now....
 

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Swirling the air into a diesel engine will not make any real difference, as the fuel is not introduced until fractionally before top dead centre on the compression stroke, by which time the intake air has forgotten whether it was swirly or not. However - on a petrol engine - if the fuel/air mixture is already present, then swirling will aid preservation of the atomisation, but usually the petrol injector is immediately prior to the inlet valve, so the air being swirled will aid atomisation distribution during the extended injector operation covering most of the induction stroke. I therefore believe that only the pressurisation benefits are applicable to diesels. I understand that it is beneficial on some diesel engines to remove the swirl valves to protect the engine from damage if/when the butterflies fall apart (e.g. some BMW diesels), so this benefit is not critical.

I agree with Fahad's summary of the problem and the solution, but Milcho is in Bulgaria... EGR/P-code error disablement may not be readily available there? Maybe finding out whether the IMRC is sticky or the Frequency Solenoid Valve actuator has failed would be useful. Sometimes the air admittance (vacuum relief) filter blocks on the FSV, so worth an investigation as the FSV is quite expensive.

On later (facelift) models I believe the FSV can be swapped with the turbo FSV to help the diagnosis, but I don't think this is possible on a 2005 model?
 

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guys,

let me summarize my case.

the car started cutting out on acceleration, so i went to a honda specialist.

we changed the fuel filter, checked the fuel tank if it was clogged, changed the rail ( i have access to good second hand spare parts), cleaned the Maf sensor, unplugged the solenoid valve...none of which cured the problem.

then i started reading this forum and it turned out that the "honda specialist" hadn't replaced the fuel filter with an original one. As soon as i bought an original ff myself and supervised the installation.... the problem was solved. :)

however, along the way, i noticed that with the solenoid valve unplugged, the car reacts faster to the acceleration pedal and pulls away much better, both at low and high revs. so i thought why not enjoy this performance all the time if there is no harm.

that's where my question came from, but i have not cleaned this egr valve yet.

am i to understand that by cleaning it i might get the edge in performance, i get with the solenoid valve off, without having to unplug the solenoid valve?
i realize this might be a stupid question

thanks
 

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one more thing,

is it normal for the car to perform better with the solenoid valve unplugged, i understand this is the case with most cases, or does that mean there is a problem with the valve itself or with some other element?

thanks again
 
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