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P2004 - IMRC Intake Manifold Runner Control problems

After driving it for a few days I have seen a bit of smoke once I think but it was a bit foggy so might just have been that, also thought it had a couple of judders which it has never done before but it hasn't done it again. The judder might just have been me or because of the amount of crap if was kicking out before I changed the filter the ECU was learning again? Anyway all seems fine for now.
 
impne said:
After driving it for a few days I have seen a bit of smoke once I think but it was a bit foggy so might just have been that, also thought it had a couple of judders which it has never done before but it hasn't done it again. The judder might just have been me or because of the amount of crap if was kicking out before I changed the filter the ECU was learning again? Anyway all seems fine for now.
Click to expand...

Lee,

just keep an eye on it, the IMRC solenoid is the main culprit as per the service bulletin and of course it is intermittent.

Again with the judders just see how it goes for a little while, I had a couple of small ones that were after replacing both solenoid and filter and seem to have solved the issue by cleaning the MAF sensor and the MAP sensor.

Fingers crossed etc, hopefully all is solved
 
Hi

I am getting an intermittent check engine light on my 2006 CTDi and it is showing up as P2004

It comes and goes as it pleases but I have had no problems with the drive, no stalling, no hesitation, nothing!

Do you suggest I simply replace the frequency solenoid valve and filter as discussed in other threads or is there a quicker and cheaper fix.

Amjad
 
Amjad said:
Hi

I am getting an intermittent check engine light on my 2006 CTDi and it is showing up as P2004

It comes and goes as it pleases but I have had no problems with the drive, no stalling, no hesitation, nothing!

Do you suggest I simply replace the frequency solenoid valve and filter as discussed in other threads or is there a quicker and cheaper fix.

Amjad
Click to expand...


Most likely to be the solenoid mentioned in this thread, equally however it can be due to a loose connection or damaged vac lines. have a look at the lines and make sure they are not broken, check the connections, but in all honesty as there is a TSB advising of the solenoid then it is a reasonable bet.

Is the fault fairly random or does it happen on cold / damp days?
 
CJM said:
Most likely to be the solenoid mentioned in this thread, equally however it can be due to a loose connection or damaged vac lines. have a look at the lines and make sure they are not broken, check the connections, but in all honesty as there is a TSB advising of the solenoid then it is a reasonable bet.

Is the fault fairly random or does it happen on cold / damp days?
Click to expand...

Oops. How do I delete this post?
 
CJM said:
Most likely to be the solenoid mentioned in this thread, equally however it can be due to a loose connection or damaged vac lines. have a look at the lines and make sure they are not broken, check the connections, but in all honesty as there is a TSB advising of the solenoid then it is a reasonable bet.

Is the fault fairly random or does it happen on cold / damp days?
Click to expand...

The fault is totally random and in any weather. Sometimes whilst idling, sometimes whilst on motorway.

I'll get the bits ordered and see how it goes.
 
Amjad said:
The fault is totally random and in any weather. Sometimes whilst idling, sometimes whilst on motorway.

I'll get the bits ordered and see how it goes.
Click to expand...

One other thing to try is that the IMRC valve works ok.

If you follow the vac pipe down from the solenoid you will come to a flying saucer type disc, around there you should see the spring that returns the valve and you should be able to freely move the valve, just check it feels free and isn't sticking.

Generally speaking the IMRC solenoid issue would come and go, so sometimes the car would be raring to go whereas other times it would feel as if it couldn't be bothered trying too hard.

The hesitation issue is emphasised a bit more if you have a re-map, as of course the car is working with finer tolerances and any fault will show up a bit more than a standard i-ctdi
 
Well I've ordered the parts and the should be at the dealer tomorrow. Hopefully get them fitted at the weekend.

Thanks for the advice.
 
Havent had time to read all of this sticky - 1 - but sounds like this is exactly the problem!!! when I was in the Honda dealer today asking about it they said theyd has to do a few ECV aswell (the one at the back). I'm away to disconnect mine now and see.....................................

Maybe these three related threads should be linked
 
olnmfc said:
Havent had time to read all of this sticky - 1 - but sounds like this is exactly the problem!!! when I was in the Honda dealer today asking about it they said theyd has to do a few ECV aswell (the one at the back). I'm away to disconnect mine now and see.....................................

Maybe these three related threads should be linked
Click to expand...


Just to bring to your attention this thread is focused on the IMRC Solenoid at the front of the engine, which tends to cause hesitation and jerkiness. If I recall the one at the back is the EVR and is connected to the turbo actuator via a Vac line.
 
Can someone post a pic of the EVR so we can tell them apart please.
 
F6HAD said:
Can someone post a pic of the EVR so we can tell them apart please.
Click to expand...

Part No.5

Lings Pre-facelift
seems to be just one on the pre-facelift

Part No.9

Lings Facelift

There are two on the facelift one goes to the EGR (front) and one to the Turbo Actuator (Back)

They have two vac connections on them

Here's a picture ignore the red arrow which is the MAP sensor, the picture is from a different thread if you look in the top right hand corner, you can just see the black filter and the two Vac lines

DSCF1754.jpg
 
Hello to everyone in the forum.

This is my first post but I'd like to give special thanks to the most prominent members who really show an interest in the discussions and make an effort to be useful.
I have been studying the forum for a long time and only post now because I got my problem solved, so I can give an account of my own case in just one post.

---------------------------------------


I got a 2004 pre-facelit iCDTI which I bought used (150 000 miles now)two years ago. The only problem I found with its history beforehand is a wrong oil grade in one service but it didn't seem to make much difference to be honest.
I always noticed a slight hesitation when accelerating. I know now it is a very common thing and maybe more of a "personality" trait of the engine. I have driven Mercedes with just the same sluggish behaviour....they're just not race cars, is my opinion!

Now, to the real problems:

1. December 2010 - Service done at dodgy garage. I only realized this later and thought it had something to do with the problem, but now I know it wasn't.
2. A week later - while gearing down to overtake, massive loss of power! To be clear, it wasn't limp mode, and there were no warning lights.
3- From there on: really low power, specially at low revs. It felt like 80bhp instead of the normal 138.

4- January 2011: took it to Honda (Shrewsbury- I'm not happy with them; can explain more if you want) for a diagnosis: they changed the fuel filter and found an "Insufficient EGR flow" code. Cost was £800 with labour, which was prohibitive to me.
5- February: I replaced my EGR with a (low mileage) used one (cost me £50): no difference.
6- Cleaned all the soot and oily gunk from the EGR airways, EGR cooler, intake manifold, IRMC valve, MAP sensor,...all I could get by myself. No difference. Just for info, I also pulled out the glow plugs and scrubbed them; they were a bit calcinated but it was no problem.

At this point, a simpler description of the car behaviour would be it felt like it was choking. I gotta say that I was doing regularly 50mpg at this time which was strange but felt good.

7- March - I took it to a trusted mechanic (this guy supports racing teams....OK, I know he doesn't support DIESEL racing teams...) to do a long promised remap and diagnose the fault. He found a leaking pipe in the EVR (yes: EVR) vacuum line (was not the problem).
7.1 - Immediately after the remap the car was good but we quickly found another problem: low turbo boost at high revs (while connecting the car to his diagnostic kit). This is because the remap lowers tolerance and highlights underlying issues, apparently.
7.2 - By stripping the turbo airways we found a leaking intercooler. It was drooling with an oily residue! It is interesting to note that it wouldn't show up in the normal smoke test: that is because the smoke pressure is not high enough.

Car smoking a lot after this but power a bit better (think 100bhp). The smoking decreased gradually as (me thinks) the ECU learnt the new environment, after a couple of tanks. Economy dropped to 40mpg.

8- April - I replaced my intercooler. Again with a used part from a low mileage breaking car. £80 instead of £1000...Made no difference.

9- May - Smoke tested again: now I had smoke leaking from my EVR.

10: May - I replaced my EVR (used part again). No difference. To be honest, I think that it is normally supposed to leak some gases to stabilize the vacuum line, so it WOULD fail a smoke test.


At this point, I am thinking: was it the dodgy service? Were the used parts no good? Is it something silly? Should I try disconnecting the IRMC, frequency solenoid, EVR, EGR, MAF, MAP...etc, one by one, to see if it makes any difference? It has been suggested, but I don't have the kit to clear fault codes myself!

Finally, I took it to Holdcroft Honda today. I must praise the only two people who I spoke with: Steve the Service Manager, whose first act was to get in my car, drive it and listen to me. And Tony, who was at the reception but he sure seemed to be very experienced.
I just needed to mention the Forum and I was offered a discount on labour. Finally, I paid a very reasonable amount for the time they spent with the car.

You want to know the diagnosis? Well, it was very simple but who'd have thought????

The plastic cover for the air intake was loose. One of the fixing plugs had fallen off and the cover was being sucked in, as the intake created vacuum. That meant not enough air into the whole system. Pretty straightforward, huh?
All they did was to fix the cover back in place...

I can post the pictures here if you want me to.I have many for all the stages of this process, but it seems like I have to post them via a web link, and I'm as good with computers as I am with cars, so let me know and I can send by email.


So, that's it, my story. To be honest, I think this problem is one in a million but I may be surprised...

Cheers!

Estevao
 
Welcome to TA - nice post! and testament to the fact that sometimes it is the simple things :D.
 
Welcome to TA and thank you very much for such a detailed account.. now if only all problems in life were that simple to fix!!

Agree with you totally, Steve and Tony are two of the highest calibre Honda employees you will meet.
 
Can the IMRC still be faulty / US without the engine fault light being on to indicate a problem. I don't know if I'm imagining it or not but my motor seems to slightly misfire at in 4th & 5th gear at around 2.5 3k revs. As said not sure if I'm imagining it might get Brett to have adrive see if he can feel it.
 
Well, hello again. I must post again because my situation is yet to be resolved,

After leaving HH I was quite happy with my car was showing the full power of the remap, albeit smoking a lot. I expect it was because they cleaned the pipes. It gradually reduced and now it barely does.
After two weeks the smoke was gone. However, the output dropped to something like the unmapped engine (still better than before HH fixed the loose intake cover, as I described before), and I had several fits of loss of power...

It was like going into the motorway, accelerating and - as I gear up - the revs kinda fluttered at 1200 for a few seconds (even if un-clutched). I stalled on the hard shoulder and took a few seconds to get back to normal.
It reoccurred soon, in the beginning for a few times, but not for while now.

I got the car back to HH and there were two parts for replacement: EGR and frequency solenoid.

I must remind you that the EGR was the original fault code and I had it then replaced by a used one. HH told me that they could hear a "clink", such as loose metal bit inside (I shook it today and couldn't hear anything, but anyway, nevermind....)
As for the frequency solenoid, they tested it manually and it had "increased resistance to flow" (if I understood correctly). Well, I have read the forum, and my symptoms were classical so it was like an epiphany.

I got a new original solenoid today, fitted it and felt no difference.
I fitted my old EGR back, and felt no difference. I also recleaned the gunk from the intake, IRMC butterfly valve and MAP sensor (just for fun...OH, not really...).

To be honest, after all this work today, the car felt slightly worse: its power was a little lower than pre-remap (lower than a normal car), felt like it was near to having another fit (didn't) and it would really not have much power over 2500rpm; to be clear, the revs would go over, but there was no delivery...

Maybe my old EGR was faulty after all. I did fiddle with it today: the valve piston was moveable with some effort, but I don't know how to gauge its possible stickiness.

So: I am inclined and I will, when convinced, to get a brand new EGR valve, but it is so expensive!

Can I have any thoughts before I proceed to do this, please? Thanks

Estevao
 
Estevao, have you taken it to the racing mechanic that remapped your car?

If you don't want to spend on a new egr and IMRC, one option is to have these mapped out which is something that we can do... However my advice would be to fix the underlying problem first.
 
F6HAD said:
Estevao, have you taken it to the racing mechanic that remapped your car?

If you don't want to spend on a new egr and IMRC, one option is to have these mapped out which is something that we can do... However my advice would be to fix the underlying problem first.
Click to expand...

Fahad,

No, I haven't been there again because it is far for me to drive and need a day off work (another good thing about HH is a courtesy car for me to get to work).

I did find very interesting a mention you made about mapping out the EGR, but I agree I should be taking care of the underlying issue.
I am, however, fearful if a new EGR wouldn't fix the ulitmate problem. I don't think Honda would take it back after fitted, would they?

Cheers
Estevao
 
Estevao, without trying to link the two but are you confident these issues were there or not there before it was remapped? I would suggest if you're having such problems to have it returned to stock, then fix the problem and then have it tuned.

Never tune an unhealthy car.
 
Fahad, the problems were there before the map.

Maybe the technician who did the remap can be considered a little irresponsible to do so in an unhealthy car....I did ask the question... However, as he explained to me, the map made more visible other areas of concern which needed doing and we have dealt with (leaking vacuum pipe, EVR and intercooler). It also got rid of the mid range ~ 2300rpm hesitation and now the car accelerates smoothly without dull spots across the rev range. Could it still be hampering an accurate diagnosis? My (lay person's) feeling is: probably not.

I absolutely agree with the principle that I probably should have waited to fix it beforehand but, at this point, the EGR diagnosis is the same as before remap.


I'll be happy to get a new EGR if necessary, but I would just like to try before I buy! Maybe I can try another used one, now I can perform the change comfortably.

Thanks
 
Personally if it was me, I would return it to stock and then let a trusted dealer like HH keep it until they fix it. If taking it back to your tuner is a problem for whatever reason, bring it to me and I'll put it to stock for free - I'm pretty confident I will have the right stock software for your car.
 
Yep sure, drop me an email or give me a call - detail on premiertuning.com
 
(Quick update and thanks to Fahad for his time and help).

The car is a little better after being put back to stock.

The remap has been removed and the car is back on the factory map. Just before this the engine was low on power (think 120bhp) which was more obvious just above 2400rpm, despite the revs going up steadily without extra power. They would then drop and flutter, as in a slipping clutch. I don't feel it is a slipping clutch because it stopped now and, only a month ago, she had plenty of power just coming out of HH, so one would have expected it to have slipped even more then.
It is still low on power but the "slipping" stopped.

Another thing Fahad brought to my attention: I have a cracked manifold, diagnosed by Honda ( I got a report) on the day I bought the car with 118k miles. They suggested to me that it isn't a problem (no smell, no noise). Anyone got experience with this? Of course it could hamper performance, but I was told by Honda that the first signs would be smell and sound.
 
Estevao, regarding your manifold the point I was making was that it was picked up at 118k miles BY HONDA on an official Honda checksheet and clearly marked as cracked, and it was less than 7 years old at the time (and still is).

Therefore to my mind, you have a strong challenge to make with Honda for a claim even though it's passed the 125k mile mark. What's worse is that the dealer wanted to charge you for the manifold repair at the time!

Regarding your drop in performance, from the symptoms you describe and from my own test drive.. I think it's possibly a weak/failing/slow reading MAF.
 
Well i seem to have started have a little hesitation at around 1500 rpm. I am about to bite the bullet and get myself a FSV, but before i do has anybody else changed theirs and had a positive outcome. Thanks.
 
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