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P2004 - IMRC Intake Manifold Runner Control problems

waj1974 said:
Guys there's also an evr vacuum filter which costs £8 I'm also gonna change that too the guys wth pre face hondas its located at the back with 2 vac tubes going into it...only thing is I gotta wait 3 days as its arriving from belgium which is weird....
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Waj is it described as Chamber comp Vacuum on Lings, it is the same part for both Pre and post facelift by the looks of it.

Any reason why you are replacing, other than to ensure the system is clean? Can you see inside it ?

certainly for £8 it cannot do any harm and judging by what big problems the Frequency Solenoid / filter has caused, you never know you might get even better performance.

Keep us posted

Thanks
 
Belgium is their European distribution centre I think mate, so quite normal. I don't think a lot of people know these parts probably need replacing so they tend not to shift a lot of them.. but I think that is about to change :D

Carl, excellent post mate. I can see you've really got into this and your findings are going to be extremely helpful... so are you sure the facelift filter will fit the pre facelift unit?

I'm not experiencing problems but if it's just the cost of a filter, I want to change this item on my car to ensure good running. I also want to replace the EVR valve, again if it's cheap just for peace of mind.

I would urge all ICTDI owners to do the same, before you start experiencing problems.

Would someone kindly confirm the part numbers for the EVR valve and the filter for the solenoid valve so we can all take note instead of having confused conversations with dealer parts departments (they will wonder why you're buying a facelift part for your pre facelift car).

Cheers

Fahad ;)
 
F6HAD said:
Belgium is their European distribution centre I think mate, so quite normal. I don't think a lot of people know these parts probably need replacing so they tend not to shift a lot of them.. but I think that is about to change ;)

Carl, excellent post mate. I can see you've really got into this and your findings are going to be extremely helpful... so are you sure the facelift filter will fit the pre facelift unit?

I'm not experiencing problems but if it's just the cost of a filter, I want to change this item on my car to ensure good running. I also want to replace the EVR valve, again if it's cheap just for peace of mind.

I would urge all ICTDI owners to do the same, before you start experiencing problems.

Would someone kindly confirm the part numbers for the EVR valve and the filter for the solenoid valve so we can all take note instead of having confused conversations with dealer parts departments (they will wonder why you're buying a facelift part for your pre facelift car).

Cheers

Fahad ;)
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Fahad

From what Nuno posted up of the removed filter I would say 99% sure (For an Accountant that means yes with slight get out clause :D )

In respect of the Chamber Comp Vacuum it is a common part across pre and post facelift, however the facelift actually has two and the pre facelift has one (According to the lings diagram )

The frequency solenoid filter is part no 36100-RSR-E02

Waj I am sure will put the part number up for the filter/chamber comp vacuum when he receives it
 
Don't diss accountants - I'm in love with mine at the moment (well his ***istant anyway)... :wub:

Will be re-reading this thread with interest once my transmission fluid has been done.
 
^^ Well I hope his ***istant doesn't have a wife :wub:

Many thanks Carl :)
 
I do ;). Cos she's a bird :wub: :) - and she just saved me £10K wwwwooooooohnoooooooo!
 
F6HAD said:
Belgium is their European distribution centre I think mate, so quite normal. I don't think a lot of people know these parts probably need replacing so they tend not to shift a lot of them.. but I think that is about to change ;)Carl, excellent post mate. I can see you've really got into this and your findings are going to be extremely helpful... so are you sure the facelift filter will fit the pre facelift unit?I'm not experiencing problems but if it's just the cost of a filter, I want to change this item on my car to ensure good running. I also want to replace the EVR valve, again if it's cheap just for peace of mind.I would urge all ICTDI owners to do the same, before you start experiencing problems.Would someone kindly confirm the part numbers for the EVR valve and the filter for the solenoid valve so we can all take note instead of having confused conversations with dealer parts departments (they will wonder why you're buying a facelift part for your pre facelift car).CheersFahad :wub:
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Faddy, you maybe right with an influx of people ordering these, but my post earlier about lead times on the filter part 36100-RSR-E02 has been confirmed. Not once.... Not twice.... But three times now.

First I have the filter on order from my local dealer. They told me that there are none available at present and that the lead time/eta for delivery is 26th November.

Second, I contacted Lings to confirm if their 3 day eta on delievery is correct... surprise surprise it wasnt and could not provide me with and ETA but did state that there were none available.

Third after a chat with Ed, I contacted HH. Spoke to a VERY helpful and friendly chap (didnt catch his name, but a big thumbs up) He confirmed that their are none available at present and that the lead time displayed on the system defaults to a date way in the future if there is no stock i.e 26 of Nov. He then confirmed tom me that on the system it was showing 26th of Nov, the same as I was told by my local dealer.... BUT (here is a very useful bit of info I hadnt been told before) he also said that once the order is placed, the eta date updates usually within 48hrs. He said that he had ordered one of these filters yesterday so would check what the eta was on his system for the part he had ordered and said it was now showing the 4th of Nov. I must say, that this was most helpful. He also said that the other person had ordered the valve itself, so he would check his system to see if there was any bulletins regarding issues with the valve and confirmed that there was. Therefore as I am already down on the list with my local dealer for the filter I will leave that as it is, as I am 'in the queue for that' as a figure of speech and whilst on the phone I also ordered the valve from HH, which should arrive Monday as they had one in stock.

So fingers crossed when it all arrives my car should be jerk, hessitation and smoke free.... well less anyway
 
Nice one Nick, so just for clarity you've ordered the filter for the solenoid valve, and what else?
 
Filter for the valve from Marshall Honda Leicester Part Num: 36100-RSR-E02 (Nov delivery... poss 4th :wub: )

Solenoid valve itself from HH Part Num 36190-RSR-E01.... oh and a cheeky set of new wipers whilst I was on the phone (Monday Delivery)
 
NESH said:
Faddy, you maybe right with an influx of people ordering these, but my post earlier about lead times on the filter part 36100-RSR-E02 has been confirmed. Not once.... Not twice.... But three times now.

First I have the filter on order from my local dealer. They told me that there are none available at present and that the lead time/eta for delivery is 26th November.

Second, I contacted Lings to confirm if their 3 day eta on delievery is correct... surprise surprise it wasnt and could not provide me with and ETA but did state that there were none available.

Third after a chat with Ed, I contacted HH. Spoke to a VERY helpful and friendly chap (didnt catch his name, but a big thumbs up) He confirmed that their are none available at present and that the lead time displayed on the system defaults to a date way in the future if there is no stock i.e 26 of Nov. He then confirmed tom me that on the system it was showing 26th of Nov, the same as I was told by my local dealer.... BUT (here is a very useful bit of info I hadnt been told before) he also said that once the order is placed, the eta date updates usually within 48hrs. He said that he had ordered one of these filters yesterday so would check what the eta was on his system for the part he had ordered and said it was now showing the 4th of Nov. I must say, that this was most helpful. He also said that the other person had ordered the valve itself, so he would check his system to see if there was any bulletins regarding issues with the valve and confirmed that there was. Therefore as I am already down on the list with my local dealer for the filter I will leave that as it is, as I am 'in the queue for that' as a figure of speech and whilst on the phone I also ordered the valve from HH, which should arrive Monday as they had one in stock.

So fingers crossed when it all arrives my car should be jerk, hessitation and smoke free.... well less anyway
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Nick and others following this thread , quick update

As you know I have just replaced the filter for now to see if there are any symptoms and until today there was no jerking.

:( Unfortunately whilst going to the chippy for the Friday Lunch I experienced two small judders, whilst nothing like what it was before I am now of the conclusion that there is still an issue, I have therefore at Lunch replaced the Solenoid valve, which I was going to do at weekend anyway.

I will update as to whether there is any noticeable difference with the new solenoid. after my journey home this evening.

It will be interesting to see what Nick experiences as he will be replacing the solenoid before the filter, so at least we will have a few from replacing both parts separately rather than together.

It was either coincidence that the solenoid began working properly after the filter was replaced, or replacing the filter lessens the effect of a faulty solenoid.

Nick I don't know whether your going to have a go at making a temporary filter or not, but pull the filter off the tube and have a look at how dirty it is and maybe check you can get air through it.
 
Cheers, Carl. I am a little reluctant to disassemble the filter incase I damage it, as I now have to wait till Nov to get my part.

But as you said, I am replacing it in the opposite order to you, so I guess we will find out if it makes any difference.

Looking forward to your update Carl, but after speaking with the guy at HH parts, he seemed to indicate that there was an issue with the valve itself as a bulletin had been sent to the dealers from Honda!

Fingers crossed the valve sorts yours :(
 
Guys, i agree with the above post by CJ. I dont think changing or replacing the filter is going to make much difference its the valve thats the problem. When I took the sensor off and found out the car was running way better first thing i did was change the valve, i didnt mess with the filter etc i mean its only a £100 and peace of mind.

Im also ordering the comp vaccuum filter which is only £8 and connected to the evr valve, and i may have to agree with fahad on this one, but i may also replace my EVR valve because its an integral part of the EGR system and as my car has 130k on the clock it makes sense to replace it.

Fahad, the part no. at lings for the EVR is PFKL538929 and the price is £173.98
 
Although a bit harsh CJ, I also don't disagree with you.

It's not necessarily the mentality of diesel owners, but just in general people don't want to spend on what seems to be unnecessary part replacement.

I hate saying to people over and over to replace fuel filters, and use genuine parts, and use good oil etc.. sometimes it falls on deaf ears and that's really frustrating.

I think this scenario is a little unique however. Whilst fuel filters, cracked manifolds etc are a well known issue - the fix for this particular issue seems to be a new discovery, and adds to our already solid knowledge base.

Again I can only speak of my own experience, but in 2.5 years of ownership and now around 55k miles, apart from servicing, my car has had a clutch, manifold and ABS sensor.

To me, that's not bad. I don't do anything special except service it properly and use V Power Diesel. It's not a hard car to live with, in fact it's been more reliable than all my previous cars (and they were all petrol cars)..

It all depends which set of lens you look through at the situation, I fear your spectacles are a little tainted due to your dim view of diesels and diesel drivers :(
 
Pepster said:
I have been watching this thread for a few days now.. and it speak volumes about the mentality of diesel owners, on one hand you have who want the best of every thing and no extra cost , on the other who wants the diesel engine to carry one without spending anything part from filling up diesel..

Then there is the hybrid version..I will bodge and harper the orginal TSB which clearly stated replace the faulty part. ahh it sod that I want to be a DIY engineer, but still wont part with my cash...


this thread has come full circle..why is advise dismissed as rubbish when Honda state replace ...why ? its hilarious you diesel lot have soo so hard.
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That's a bit harsh !

Firstly there was speculation about why the filter was separate on the facelift.

I ordered both parts straight away and paid top dollar according to some! and had the opportunity to replace just the filter first to see if there was any improvement etc, yes to see if the filter was the main cause after all the advice was that there was a vac leak on the solenoid on the preface lift where the filter is part of it and then it had been re-designed where the filter was separate, creating the speculation.

Some people with this problem have already spent a lot of money trying to solve it replacing EGR valves, MAF sensors etc, so why not try and save people money if it was only the filter that was the problem or equally prove that it is not just the filter, in the end of course we may find that it is something completely different.

in respect of the comment "Then there is the hybrid version..I will bodge and harper the orginal TSB which clearly stated replace the faulty part. ahh it sod that I want to be a DIY engineer, but still wont part with my cash" I ***ume you are referring to me and taking the old filter apart.
Firstly until Nick mentioned the service bulletin today it is the first time for the facelift.
Secondly it was only done as there is a shortage of filters and as a temporary measure; you are fortunate that you don't have this problem, others do have it and have to live with it on a day to day basis. At that point in time on the thread it was looking quite favourable towards the filter being part of the issue.
Thirdly I thought the forum was all about trying to help each other, encouraging DIY, now clearly I miss-understood that purpose.


One final thing, throughout this thread at no point has the advice to replace the solenoid been dismissed, please remember that many people with this problem have tried many things cleaning the EGR etc. As Fahad has said within the thread if someone had gone and got diagnostics etc. People have gone to the dealers and the dealers have said that they cannot find anything wrong; it was only because of Waj getting a fault code that it came to light. Presumably the fault code won’t appear until it fails.

Ah well we live and learn
 
It is a bit harsh and could be very off putting to some of the newer members on here that have diesels and reading this topic.

As my car has never showed a fault code, I have been very reluctant to take it into a dealer for their £90 charge just for a look, quick diagnostics and then throwing endless money at an intermittent fault that occurs as the garage cant locate it.

example case being my brothers Golf a couple of years back. it had an intermittent fault that didnt show any codes. It went in the dealer and an independent garage about 6-7 times before they eventually seemed to cure it and it cost him in excess of £1500 in parts and labour as it was about 6 months out of warranty. I unfortunately dont have a spare few grand kicking around so have gone for the next best thing... Speaking to a large number of owners on a forum. That way, if it is a problem a few people have, then someone may have already found what it is.

I have spent a lot of money on genuine parts, but only those which people had replaced and had some degree of success in resolving some of the issues I have. I also am going to get HH to give it the once over with the diagnostics to see if anything shows, but unfortunately I havent had the time to get to stoke at any point and I dont trust my local dealer.

I do appreciate that it may have been mentioned before, but I havent seen that thread (possibly older forum), but it could be as I have only had my car since April, so not been around as long. I have replaced all parts which I have been advised about, FF, EGR valve, MAF, full service all genuine, but not resolved it yet. I am also very open to any other suggestions that members or dealers come up with.

I am not trying to upset anyone, but just want everyone to get on well and be friendly and offer constructive feedback

Hope that we can all just move on and hopefully get this issue with the hesitation resolved for all.

Cheers Nick ;)
 
Pepster said:
Guys I didn't want to point finger nor did I want to single anyone out.it could be my common sense approach is not to anyone liking,...B) ;) ;) :lol:
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Cheers CJ no harm done and I do understand about the logical approach

Pepster said:
http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/1240-imrc-frequency-solenoid-failure-dtc-p2004/page__pid__14089#entry14089Hope this is definitive for you chaps,
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Great info and very useful for other members on the site. Until I spoke to the guy on parts at HH I didnt know about this and I must of joined too late to see it on other forums. Good to see the full bulletin from Honda and very useful.

Cheers B)
 
Well to update on this afternoon.

Since my slight two Judders this afternoon, I have now fitted the new Frequency Solenoid.

The car felt slightly smoother, although unfortunately it did two small judders again, this was when the temp gauge was probably about 5mm into the temperature zone.

The judders were like the ones I felt at Lunchtime and not anything like as severe as the ones I was experiencing before doing the test suggested by Waj.

Up to now replacing the solenoid and filter seems to have solved a lot of the problem and I would say on the small amount of mileage I have driven since replacing the solenoid, that the car feels a bit livelier.

Unlike some others I haven't cleaned the IMRC Valve yet or the EGR nor the MAF sensor which could of course be giving the slight judder.

One other thing I have noticed is that when you are starting from stationary, the initial pick-up engine noise sounds a little lumpy and you feel as if you need to increase the revs a little more.

I will see how it goes
;)
 
Carl, have you disconnected the battery at any time to reset the ECU? dont know if it will help, but the ECU learns and if there has been issues then it might have learnt some bad habits.

Just a thought. ;)
 
NESH said:
Carl, have you disconnected the battery at any time to reset the ECU? dont know if it will help, but the ECU learns and if there has been issues then it might have learnt some bad habits.

Just a thought. ;)
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Thanks Nick,


No I haven't, the last time I disconnected it was to do the fuel filter. Do you know how long? Although I seem to remember Nuno mentioning it on another thread. i'll have a look.
 
Not sure, but I suspect 10-15 mins should do it. Ed mentioned it to me, so I cant take the credit, but it sounds plausible and worth ago. I will probably disconnect mine overnight.
 
NESH said:
Not sure, but I suspect 10-15 mins should do it. Ed mentioned it to me, so I cant take the credit, but it sounds plausible and worth ago. I will probably disconnect mine overnight.
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Well thanks both of you !!

The post I was thinking of that Nuno mentioned clearing the ECU,actually involves removing the ECU fuse

Me experience with jerkiness at low revs

Think I'll disconnect the battery first though.
 
Keep us posted Carl, Cheers
 
Guys you don't need to disconnect the battery. This is how honda reset the ecu the proper way: make sure the engine is at normal operating temp. remove the ecu fuse from the fuse box located in the engine bay. Wait about a minute some wait 5 but I think that's over kill. Replace the fuse get in the car and start the engine but DONT touch anything else eg brake pedal gas pedal etc let it idle for 10-15 minutes then switch engine off full turn then quickly turn ignition back on. That stores the new ecu settings.
 
Cheers Waj. Very helpful ;)
 
waj1974 said:
Guys you don't need to disconnect the battery. This is how honda reset the ecu the proper way: make sure the engine is at normal operating temp. remove the ecu fuse from the fuse box located in the engine bay. Wait about a minute some wait 5 but I think that's over kill. Replace the fuse get in the car and start the engine but DONT touch anything else eg brake pedal gas pedal etc let it idle for 10-15 minutes then switch engine off full turn then quickly turn ignition back on. That stores the new ecu settings.
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Thanks Waj

I presume it just resets it to when the map was put on ?
 
Yeah Carl. You cant get rid of Faddys map that easily ;) Just resets what it has learnt and goes back to default settings. i.e when faddy first put the map on.
 
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