P2004 - IMRC Intake Manifold Runner Control problems
- Thread starter waj1974
- Start date
waj1974
Members
Fingers crossed guys!!!
CJM
Dr. Diesel
Ok here are the parts
First the Filter and part number
Now the old filter as I was removing it
New filter fitted
The new solenoid (not fitted as of yet)
All 10mm socket from the engine cover to replacing the valve :unsure:
I think if on the pre-facelift there are the two threaded holes where the filter fits on the facelift and you can get the filter off the old solenoid then with a bit of vac pipe, you can buy the part anyway then I would imagine it could be done, you would also need the bolt.
On the old filter I blew and sucked through the pipe, I was expecting it to be one way, didn't do this to the new one though as I didn't want to introduce moisture.
First the Filter and part number
Now the old filter as I was removing it
New filter fitted
The new solenoid (not fitted as of yet)
All 10mm socket from the engine cover to replacing the valve :unsure:
I think if on the pre-facelift there are the two threaded holes where the filter fits on the facelift and you can get the filter off the old solenoid then with a bit of vac pipe, you can buy the part anyway then I would imagine it could be done, you would also need the bolt.
On the old filter I blew and sucked through the pipe, I was expecting it to be one way, didn't do this to the new one though as I didn't want to introduce moisture.
CJM
Dr. Diesel
Me too, even though I've got a new solenoid I will know for any future events, which will be cheaper. Also if it is just the filter then when I fit the new solenoid I can see if there is any other differences that can be achieved, but the main thing is to stop the jerking.
waj1974
Members
Fahad that part looks the same as the one I got
CJM
Dr. Diesel
Is the 1cm tube metal or a vac tube.
The only way I can see it working is if there is somewhere to mount the new valve and you can connect a vac tube to the solenoid.
Has the filter got a bracket holding it to the solenoid or is it stuck directly onto the 1cm tube as such ?
CJM
Dr. Diesel
Got in the car this morning, a nice light frost on the car ! Temp gauge said 4 degrees.
So I was half expecting the worst, cold morning and the Mrs had driven the car last, this has normally proved very fruitful in producing said jerking problem !
Started her up and the engine sounded fine, put both rear and front screen de-misters on, even the heated seat, (just to load the engine as much as possible, honestly) oh and lights!
My journey to work involves approximately 3 to 4 miles of residential roads then around 3 miles of motorway and then say another 2 miles of residential. Depending on the time of day it can take 15 minutes to around 45 minutes ! The car is normally getting near to operating temperature as I get on the motorway.
********RESULT*******
Well not a single stutter, judder, hesitation, Hic-up, leap frog call it what you will :lol:
So what do I make of that, well before I disconnected it had started to be a daily occurrence, but equally it wasn't happening after the Re-map for a little while. I have had it disconnected for a week roughly and I am a great believer in letting electrical parts with intermittent parts rest, before ***igning them to the bin, so cannot rule out the solenoid 100% yet.
However If I were looking at this thread now and armed with the information that I also gained from the other thread EGR problems and possible fixes where the link mentions filters etc (even though technically this isn't for the EGR) , together with Beefy saying it was re-designed and the filter just happens to be the only visual design change, like Fahad has said, then I would order the filter first and see if it works. Even if it does in the end prove to be the solenoid then it does no harm to have a clean filter.
Also as I mentioned last night I had one "hic-up" which was reasonably early on in my journey home, but nothing since (to date) this of course could be due to settling back down or a bit of carbon shifting.
Will of course be keeping everyone posted if anything changes, was thinking of putting the solenoid on at the weekend to see if there are any further improvements.
So hopefully good news as the filter at top dollar prices is around £27 including VAT, plus Nuno and Waj are looking into whether the pre-facelift solenoid can be modified to take just the replacement valve.
B)
So I was half expecting the worst, cold morning and the Mrs had driven the car last, this has normally proved very fruitful in producing said jerking problem !
Started her up and the engine sounded fine, put both rear and front screen de-misters on, even the heated seat, (just to load the engine as much as possible, honestly) oh and lights!
My journey to work involves approximately 3 to 4 miles of residential roads then around 3 miles of motorway and then say another 2 miles of residential. Depending on the time of day it can take 15 minutes to around 45 minutes ! The car is normally getting near to operating temperature as I get on the motorway.
********RESULT*******
Well not a single stutter, judder, hesitation, Hic-up, leap frog call it what you will :lol:
So what do I make of that, well before I disconnected it had started to be a daily occurrence, but equally it wasn't happening after the Re-map for a little while. I have had it disconnected for a week roughly and I am a great believer in letting electrical parts with intermittent parts rest, before ***igning them to the bin, so cannot rule out the solenoid 100% yet.
However If I were looking at this thread now and armed with the information that I also gained from the other thread EGR problems and possible fixes where the link mentions filters etc (even though technically this isn't for the EGR) , together with Beefy saying it was re-designed and the filter just happens to be the only visual design change, like Fahad has said, then I would order the filter first and see if it works. Even if it does in the end prove to be the solenoid then it does no harm to have a clean filter.
Also as I mentioned last night I had one "hic-up" which was reasonably early on in my journey home, but nothing since (to date) this of course could be due to settling back down or a bit of carbon shifting.
Will of course be keeping everyone posted if anything changes, was thinking of putting the solenoid on at the weekend to see if there are any further improvements.
So hopefully good news as the filter at top dollar prices is around £27 including VAT, plus Nuno and Waj are looking into whether the pre-facelift solenoid can be modified to take just the replacement valve.
B)
Excellent result Carl, and thanks a lot Nuno B)
Hey.. I think I might have been right about something for once :lol:
Best thing is, it's an easy and cheap fix for a big annoying problem by the sounds of it.. So are we saying in essence that if you have a pre facelift car, you could buy a facelift filter and valve ***embly (both parts) and then in future you only need to replace the filter.. I wonder if that would work.
Hey.. I think I might have been right about something for once :lol:
Best thing is, it's an easy and cheap fix for a big annoying problem by the sounds of it.. So are we saying in essence that if you have a pre facelift car, you could buy a facelift filter and valve ***embly (both parts) and then in future you only need to replace the filter.. I wonder if that would work.
CJM
Dr. Diesel
Fahad,
What I'm not too sure on is whether you can use the facelift solenoid as the ECU might not recognise it, the pre-facelift is a denso 446 and the facelift is a denso 480, might be worth a try though ?
Could do with Nuno or Waj if they have the old solenoid, taking off the filter and possibly putting up a pic of the part excluding filter.
The other thing for it to work is you would have to attach the facelift filter to the engine somewhere, I'm not sure whether there are the two threaded holes on the engine like with the facelift (where on my picture the filter is attached ) then I would imagine with some Vac tube you can attach to the pre-facelift solenoid.
In theory if it is the filter across the range, then you could simply get the filter for the facelift, together with the Vac hose and then pull off the old filter from the existing solenoid and re-connect the new filter, thus saving the cost of buying a new solenoid all together.
Worst case scenario would be you need a new solenoid and we now know the car runs without it, albeit a bit smokey!
Then once more people have confirmed that it seems to be the filter, I think it will become a regular service item, just like the fuel filter.
Totally agree Carl.
Nuno/Waj if either of you have the old part, could you do as suggested and take the filter off and stick up a pic please?
I think it will work to be honest, the part numbers probably just denote the difference in design ***embly rather than any other changes.
Nuno/Waj if either of you have the old part, could you do as suggested and take the filter off and stick up a pic please?
I think it will work to be honest, the part numbers probably just denote the difference in design ***embly rather than any other changes.
CJM
Dr. Diesel
Hopefully like you say the part numbers relate more to the design, than anything else, i'll have a spare and others may have a spare shortly so we could always try it out sometime, if the ECU was to reject it I would imagine the MIL light would come on.
CJM
Dr. Diesel
The code on the sticker is :
Facelift
101362 - 4800
FRS3
Pre-facelift
101362 -4461
FRS1
Looking at the numbers it could easily be the same part "101362" just that the latest revision is FRS3 and the first revision is FRS1 and then the 4461 and 4800 just denote the design. Just a theory on Fahad thoughts.
Facelift
101362 - 4800
FRS3
Pre-facelift
101362 -4461
FRS1
Looking at the numbers it could easily be the same part "101362" just that the latest revision is FRS3 and the first revision is FRS1 and then the 4461 and 4800 just denote the design. Just a theory on Fahad thoughts.
Following Carl's report, I thought I would get the filter ordered asap and if it didnt do the fix then order the valve as well. Well called my local dealer 5 times and couldnt speak to anyone in parts, so left a message asking them to call and nothing. So I thought sod them, and called the dealer nearest to where I work.
Now the good news is, I ordered it.
The bad news is, they are on back order until an ETA of 26th November
So not sure if people are already ordering them or that Carl just got the last one in the country. Oh well.
This therefore means I will get my car plugged in at the HH meet and see if anything else shows up.
If anyone does order one and gets a shorter delivery time please let me know. Cheers :lol:
Now the good news is, I ordered it.
The bad news is, they are on back order until an ETA of 26th November
So not sure if people are already ordering them or that Carl just got the last one in the country. Oh well.
This therefore means I will get my car plugged in at the HH meet and see if anything else shows up.
If anyone does order one and gets a shorter delivery time please let me know. Cheers :lol:
davemazo
Members
I ordered a filter from Lookers in Southport and was told I'd have it tomorrow. I somehow doubt it now but if I get it I'll let you know
CJM
Dr. Diesel
Following Carl's report, I thought I would get the filter ordered asap and if it didnt do the fix then order the valve as well. Well called my local dealer 5 times and couldnt speak to anyone in parts, so left a message asking them to call and nothing. So I thought sod them, and called the dealer nearest to where I work.
Now the good news is, I ordered it.
The bad news is, they are on back order until an ETA of 26th November
So not sure if people are already ordering them or that Carl just got the last one in the country. Oh well.
This therefore means I will get my car plugged in at the HH meet and see if anything else shows up.
If anyone does order one and gets a shorter delivery time please let me know. Cheers
Nick,
Even Lings are showing them as only three days, I think you might be best trying them or another dealer.
Is the dealer near your work a small dealer, they maybe waiting until they have a large enough order !
Lings
Part No. 8
CJM
Dr. Diesel
Looking at the pics Nuno has just posted there wouldn't be a problem fitting the facelift filter via a vac tube (Part No.18 on lings diagram on my previous post)
The facelift filter comes with the mounting bracket, the only question that needs answering, is there somewhere to mount the filter onto the engine block? like it is on the facelift (slightly to the left of where the solenoid goes)
Facelift filter mounting
If anyone (Nuno ) can take a pic of the pre-facelift to the left of where the solenoid is bolted to the engine.
I will see tomorrow whether you can take the filter off the mounting bracket for the facelift, if it has the rubber seal then I would imagine it could just be transferred, although whether this is where the vac leak is.
The facelift filter comes with the mounting bracket, the only question that needs answering, is there somewhere to mount the filter onto the engine block? like it is on the facelift (slightly to the left of where the solenoid goes)
Facelift filter mounting
If anyone (Nuno
) can take a pic of the pre-facelift to the left of where the solenoid is bolted to the engine.I will see tomorrow whether you can take the filter off the mounting bracket for the facelift, if it has the rubber seal then I would imagine it could just be transferred, although whether this is where the vac leak is.
It must be a fair size dealership as they are open till 8 ever night and are linked to a chain of a few dealerships. I may e-mail lings and ask them if they can get them in the next few days.
No other Honda dealerships near me apart from Marshall ones!
No other Honda dealerships near me apart from Marshall ones!
CJM
Dr. Diesel
Dont break it Carl! or are you going to butcher your old one?
I emailed Lings late last night to see if their 3 day estimate was right. Cant believe how long the dealer I have ordered it with say it is going to take!!!
I emailed Lings late last night to see if their 3 day estimate was right. Cant believe how long the dealer I have ordered it with say it is going to take!!!
CJM
Dr. Diesel
Thanks for the concern Nick, yes I'm going to butcher the old one and got a bit carried away with my thoughts so I did this:
Firstly the good news the filter just pulls off, so you could by just the filter and then pull it off and fit it onto the pre-facelift solenoid so problem solved in the filter department (just got to get the filter now)
The possible shortage of replacement filters got me thinking as to whether the filter can be disassembled and maybe even just as an interim the filter element be replaced I therefore arrived at the following conclusion:
Intake side of filter
Vac pipe side of filter
What I thought is that a temporary filter could be made with something like extractor fan filter paper and possibly some thin felt pad, like the ones for underneath furniture etc (generally green in colour)
To de-***emble the filter cartridge some care is needed, otherwise it will break.
1. Take filter off metal vac pipe or solenoid (just pull it off). (please note that the rubber vac pipe inside may stay on the metal vac tube, it is ok to leave it there)
2. I unclipped the washer plate at the bottom of the filter, but later found that this was unnecessary.
3 This is the tricky part and you need to take your time over it, you need to remove the filter vent plug that holds the filter element in place.
Looking at the top of the filter, with a smallish flat screwdriver feed it in until you feel the centre core of the plug then start to prise the plug out, it is in quite firm so needs some effort, however to save weakening any particular area, apply a little leverage and then remove screwdriver and place in next slot and do the same until the plug comes free. In all honesty I don't think it will cause a major problem if one of the fins breaks, but it will prevent you from extracting the plug in the future, the main thing is not to damage the flange in the middle (please see picture )
4. To extract filter use small straw, cotton bud stick or similar and push out from the bottom (through small hole at bottom of filter housing.)
5. To make new filter draw around plug on extractor filter paper and cut out (don't cut around filter plug as there is a ridge that clips it all together on the rim of the plug base)
6 The filter is about 2 to 3 mm thick and therefore I would suggest using something like thin felt or similar, most of the filtration would be done by the extractor fan filter paper. Alternatively you could get some Dyson vac filters and modify accordingly.
Refitting is the reverse and just clip all together applying reasonable pressure until it clicks closed.
Maybe worth a try
waj1974
Members
Guys there's also an evr vacuum filter which costs £8 I'm also gonna change that too the guys wth pre face hondas its located at the back with 2 vac tubes going into it...only thing is I gotta wait 3 days as its arriving from belgium which is weird....